October 5, 2004

How to find your first heavy hitter sales rep
(plus 10 signs that you're stuck in the bush leagues)

by Bruce Hadley, SoftwareCEO

For most young software companies, probably the single biggest hurdle is getting a sales organization in place. It's always risky to talk in generalities, of course, but the majority of ISVs focus first on building a great product, and second on finding someone (or some way) to sell it.

We were keenly interested, therefore, when our old friend Steve Martin—no, not the guy with an arrow through his head—sent us a copy of his new book, "Heavy Hitter Selling."

Martin has been a software sales pro for more than 20 years, and came at it from a different approach than most: He began as a programmer. That predilection toward systems—figuring out how processes work—fueled his later sales success.

And, that success was significant: Martin figures he's personally sold more than $250 million of software, working for developers large and small.

He spent six years at Informix on large account sales; when the company reached $1 billion in revenues, he joined SQRIBE Technology as VP sales, and took them from start-up to $50 million. (SQRIBE filed for an IPO, but ended up merging with BRIO Software).

Martin's book speaks directly to the issue that plagues most CEOs and VPs who're trying to build a sales organization: How can I distinguish the heavy hitters from the bush league players—before I've sunk tens of thousands of dollars into a trial run?

And, assuming I know how to spot them, where can I find them?

And, assuming I'm lucky enough to land one, how can I keep him or her on my team, happily landing those successful deals?

"Heavy Hitter Selling" is definitely worth a read, but we thought it would be helpful to go straight to the source. We recently posed those questions (and more) to Martin in a lively and enlightening interview.

Home run tip #1: Change your sales hiring requirements.
Before you can find a heavy hitter, you need to rethink what you're looking for, Martin says. "Most software companies make the same mistake in hiring sales people," he says.

"They make the primary requirement exact experience on their exact product. If they're selling SFA software, they want to hire someone who's been selling SFA software for 10 years.

"Thus, you're hiring rote memorization of the technical language that the customer speaks. 'If they know the clichés, I'm hiring him,' the CEO or VP says.

"The problem with that is that in no way, shape, or form does it guarantee a successful hire. The problem is even worse in smaller companies, because every hire has to be a heavy hitter."

The real hiring criterion, Martin says, should be what he calls "sales intuition": How fast on their feet are they?

If you ask CEOs what a salesperson's job is, Martin says that most will respond that salespeople are simply paid to sell—to close business. But the reality of a salesperson's job is very different.

Martin lists four characteristics, in order of priority, that every heavy hitter understands and has demonstrated success:

Home run tip #2: Heavy hitters believe in long-term relationships.
"First and foremost, salespeople build customer relationships," Martin says. "In reality, there's very little difference between software products; what you're selling is the relationship.

"To the customer, the salesperson is the metaphor for the company: They are indicative of the type of relationship you're going to have with the company.

"Let's say an Oracle salesperson comes in my office and he's wearing gold cufflinks, a monogrammed shirt, and $500 shoes. If I'm an IT guy, I'm going to say to myself, 'This guy's different from me; I'm not going to have a meaningful relationship with him.'

"If, on the other hand, the salesperson he comes in humbly and attaches to me as a person, the customer is likely to say, 'Well, their product may not be as good as Oracle's, but these guys are going to take care of me.'

"The moral here is simple but vital: The little companies have to find sales people who can build relationships."

Home run tip #3: Heavy hitters are mind readers—and they'll demonstrate their skill in the interview.
"True heavy hitters read customers' minds," Martin says. "Not telepathically, but intuitively.

"If I'm talking to you in the interview process and I'm only presenting myself, I'm not a heavy hitter. If I'm trying to join your company, and you say, 'Well, I see you worked at Mumblefratz Company; I've never heard of them. Who are they?'

"Now, as a salesperson who has intuition, at that point I'd realize the person is questioning my background working with little companies, so I say, 'Yes, I worked there and we had a hard time competing with big companies. Here's how we solved that problem.'

"Or, let's say you as the interviewer start to close up: You glance at your clock, or you fold your arms across your chest; what does the salesperson do?

"Do they just start talking faster and louder? Do they sense objections? Do they say, 'I feel we've not connected, and I'd like to understand why'? Or do they just gloss over it and keep talking about themselves.

"The fundamental premise is that all decision-making is not logical, but subject to human nature. Whether inadvertently or on purpose, the customer will always lie to the salesperson. You cannot spot the truth if you don't have the ability to read minds—if you take what the person says at face value."

When Martin talks about customers lying, he doesn't necessarily mean bald-faced deceit; he's referring to "white lies," the social niceties we all employ to avoid direct confrontation or hurt feelings.

For example, in the hypothetical interview process above, the interviewer is likely to edit himself in front of the candidate. At the end of an hour, he's unlikely to say, "Sorry, you're not good enough for us." Instead, he'll say, 'Well, we're looking at several candidates; we'll let you know."

Martin's point is that in all sales situations, one person or one company comes out as the favorite, and they get the truth, and everyone else gets fed lies.

Home run tip #4: Heavy hitters can predict the future.
Lest you think Martin is some wacky new-age philosopher, let's explain: He isn't talking about the ability to craft a perfect sales forecast or handicap horse races; he's saying that heavy hitters know where they belong.

"In the interview process, most people make up their minds very early based on one simple thing: They like the candidate, or they don't.

"And, that can be a valid measure: In a startup company, if you hire an unlikable person in a startup, you will fail. The key here is predicting whether your customers will like the salesperson."

But, we argued, given the "happy family" vibe at most startups, isn't it unrealistic to expect that a high-powered, pushy salesperson will fit in? Aren't we trying to force-fit cultures?

"I guarantee there will be conflict, but in every successful sales situation there's a happy medium," Martin says. "The bigger the company you're in, with the more marketing groundcover you have, the more you can err on the side of pushiness.

"The smaller the company, I think you have to err toward someone who can differentiate you from a relationship standpoint. Microsoft has already established a relationship with billions of people, so the salesperson doesn't have to; their software is already on your desktop. The startup doesn't have that luxury.

"But, I think there's also semantics at play here: What most people consider pushy and obnoxious is different from what I consider aggressive. You have to be aggressive, but you can do that without going over the line.

"The key point is that in high tech deals, it's a team effort, especially if you have a complex product. The best person on the account isn't even the salesperson; it's the SE or the field person.

"So, if you hire a salesperson who annoys everyone on the team, you're making a huge mistake."

Home run tip #5: Heavy hitters are successful evangelists.
"Heavy hitters can persuade customers to change their opinions and beliefs," Martin says.

"This is an important part of the heavy hitter psychology: You can have an empathetic salesperson who is not a persuasive salesperson. What makes them persuasive?

"As we said earlier, a lot of hiring is based on the command of logical facts: I know the space, I know the product, I know who to call on. Having that knowledge means you are competent at one layer of the language.

"The persuasive ability really requires the successful combination of that catalogued experience plus personal receptiveness plus the ability to guide the listener's internal dialogue.

"In the hiring interview, then, I ask myself a fundamental question: Would I buy from them? Did they close me? I don't mean that as a technique; it isn't asking for the order—I certainly wouldn't expect them to say, 'Are you going to hire me?'

"The interviewee, if he's a heavy hitter, doesn't have to ask those questions; all they have to do is get the interviewer to follow them. Did the CEO believe in them and in some way want to follow them, or be with them, to bring them on board?

"Typical software CEOs don't have a strong sales background; they're technical or financial, so they rely on the technical fact. The salesperson name-drops a few things and the CEO is enchanted, but they've not established that the person can lead the conversation."

Home run tip #6: Don't put too much stock in references.
"Every reference is a good reference," Martin says. "Anyone can polish the pig. Customer references are going to be more valuable, but even those can be misleading.

"The worst salesperson can come up with three people who will say glowing things about them. In fact, I've run into VPs who say they'll never give a bad reference; the industry is too small, plus there's legal liability.

"According to the Bureau of Statistics, the turnover rate among salespeople in all industries is 2.7 years; in high tech it's probably 1.7. The references aren't going to tell you that much."

Home run tip #7: Good interviews always depend on triangulation.
"You need to operate on the principal of triangulation," Martin says. "Always.

"In a sales deal, you use the salesperson, the SE, and the manager to meet with the customer. All three compare notes to ask, 'Where are we on this deal?' You want as many viewpoints as possible to coordinate where you really are.

"When you're looking for heavy hitters, I think you have the CEO interview the candidate, then the most technical person on your staff interviews them, then your VP of marketing.

"Basically, you're testing whether the salesperson has flexibility with all of these other people. And, you want all the different points of view—you want them to come back and answer the question, 'Would you buy from him or her?'

"That's your dry run—to test whether this person can sell to a varied audience.

Home run tip #8: Past performance means next to nothing.
Is past sales success a reliable indicator of future performance? Not anymore, Martin says.

"I would have agreed with that premise in 2000, but not anymore. Customers have changed so dramatically. First of all, they're smarter than ever, and their buying habits have changed. The IT department has gotten much more specialized.

"Second, they're better informed than ever. You can go the web and get every possible analyst report, blog, and product review—you have all this information.

"What your candidate sold in 1996 or 2000 is moot; it was a different game back then. We used to try to get customers to buy all they could eat; it doesn't work anymore. They want to test validate and verify.

"If you have the guy who was the top sales rep at Oracle in 1996 to 2000 and you put him in at Hooterville Software, I can almost guarantee you he's going to fail. Past experience is going to point to some tendencies, but it is not the all-encompassing indicator of future success."

Home run tip #9: There's a glut of talent, as long as you know what they want.
Good news: There are a lot of people out there who need jobs, including heavy hitters, Martin says.

"I probably get half-a-dozen contacts every week from sales VPs who are testing the market or looking for work—and three times that many from sales people."

But, the current "buyers' market" doesn't guarantee you'll end up with winners; you have to know what they want, says Martin. "I surveyed people I know who are heavy hitters, and I asked them to name the most important things about their job.

"Their answers, in order of frequency:

• Making an impact
• Learning new skills (sales and technical)
• Compensation
• The quality of the management team
• Career advancement
• The quality of the product
• The culture of the company
• The stability of the company

"Yes, compensation is up there, but look at the top of the list: Heavy hitters want to leave a legacy. The heavy hitter views challenges as an opportunity to really leave a mark in the world. Once you know that, you know how you appeal to a heavy hitter.

"You appeal to them psychologically—not by just throwing cash at them. The CEO's pitch is this: 'We're going to take this company and do something great with it, and that's what this job is about —I'm trying to get the most talented people to join me on this quest.'

"'A'-quality heavy hitters want to work for 'A'-quality managers. The weaker players are just looking for paycheck; they want a cushy sales culture and a stable environment.

"A lot salespeople are trying to get into the BEAs of the world—and I'll be honest with you, that's where they belong. They're not heavy hitters."

Home run tip #10: Not all heavy hitters are heartless mercenaries.
Most of us have an image of heavy hitters as aggressive, take-no-prisoners sales Dobermans. The opposite is true, Martin says, and this fact can work to the small company's advantage.

If your company isn't a fast-track, VC-funded darling of the media and analysts, how can you make your opportunity appealing to a heavy hitter? "As a CEO of one of those companies, there's the potential to do something cooler," Martin says.

"There's a natural tendency in everyone to want to help people; people are wired to help other people. If I were a CEO without an industry reputation as a rock star—if I were one of the tactical guys who's been grinding it out—I would appeal to the heavy hitter to help.

"I m not saying I'd beg him or her for help; I'm saying I'd offer them the truth. How do you think the heavy hitter feels on the other side? 'I have a chance to apply what I've learned and really make a difference here.'"

Home run tip #11: Learn and live by the MVP principle.
"If you ask a heavy hitter, 'What is the most important sales management quality?" they'll invariably answer, 'Being treated as an individual,' Martin says.

"Every heavy hitter wants to be treated as an MVP—but in sales management it doesn't stand for 'most valuable player,' it stands for 'motivate, value, and praise.'

"If the heavy hitter candidate senses that they're going to work for a person who motivates, values, and praises them, they'll come on board. If they sense someone is going to lay a story on them, they won't."

Home run tip #12: Compensation is a satisfier, not a deal-breaker.
How much are you going to have to pay your heavy hitter sales hire? "Here's my personal philosophy," Martin says. "Never overpay and never underpay.

"I would never prostitute my conscience by paying too much to hire them—that's only going to build up resentment. And, the salary structure for heavy hitters is changing.

"A few years ago, he could ask for a base of $100K or $120K and get it; that has gone down. In some markets it's $60K or $70K, and in some markets it's $80K or $90K.

"I would have achievable, reachable incentives that paid them handsomely on the backend. Every salesperson wants to achieve; they don't just want a direct deposit.

"Remember, compensation is not the top issue; it is a satisfier. It satisfies one of the basic human requirements.

"You can ask 100 salespeople. 'Would you like to make $200K and work in a stressful, environment where you really don't matter, or would you like to make $175K in a situation where every deal you close makes a difference?'

"They'll all choose the latter."

Home run tip #13: Make your sales quotas carrots, not sticks.
A huge part of attracting and hanging on to a heavy hitter is your grasp of reality when it comes to setting sales quotas, Martin says.

"I think almost all software sales quotas are just too high. I have a friend who's looking for a job, and he recently showed me an offer he received. This software company wanted him to come in at a $2.8 million quota in the educational market.

"'OK, I said, they're going to pay you a nice base, but there's nothing but failure ahead; why bother?' If it were me, I'd start them out at a lower quota and make them a hero—get the success down early and often. That's the best motivation.

"I would look at the deal mix of what's been closed and how it was closed, then come up with a number that I absolutely know is achievable. What does anyone gain from failure?

"What's happened is that management's style is to beat the living crap out of salesperson—beat them and humiliate them. That's no way to run a company long-term."

Home run tip #14: As in all things, learn to nurture diversity.
Heavy hitters don't come in just one flavor, Martin says; in fact, a heavy hitter team succeeds because it contains diverse selling styles.

"As a sales manager, you have to know your team's individual selling styles. What frustrates a lot of managers is they expect one selling style, when in fact the best sales organization is the most diverse one.

"Customers can be different from one geography to another, one industry to another, one job title to another. Unfortunately, managers usually hire one style; they need to recognize different styles and nurture them. It cannot be dictatorial."

Bonus tip: 10 signs that your rep isn't a heavy hitter.
"One of the biggest complaints I hear when I talk to mid-level managers is that they have one person on the team who poisons everything," Martin says.

"Anything the manager tries to do—it could be the smallest change in a process like expense reimbursement, to actually trying to implement a new method—everything is rejected and ridiculed.

"Those people are not heavy hitters and never will be, because they don't know how to be part of a team. I've gone through this personally as a VP and a sales manager; I've tried to bring those people along. In the past, I'd try to bring them along and build them up, but the easiest solution is to remove it and move.

"In a small company, there's the added danger that the CEO feels that they still need that person. The rep makes their number, but the downside is too great. Too much mental anguish and energy is wasted over this one person. It's all about the team—it has to be."

To help spot these troublesome reps before they poison the rest of your team, here then is Martin's list of 10 mistakes to look for. Those who belong in the bush leagues make these errors; heavy hitters don't:

Bush league foul #1: They talk too much on a sales call and don't listen to the customer enough.
"Go on calls with them," Martin says. "And, this relates back to the interview process: If they're engaged in a monologue rather than a meaningful dialogue, watch out."

Bush league foul #2: They present the same pitch in the same way to every customer.
"Yes, you might have an accepted sales process, but are you going to tell me that every one of your customers is the same?" says Martin.

"I'm not saying your slide show is different in every account, but the reasons for buying could be very, very different. One's buying to fix a problem; the next could be buying because they want that next big promotion."

Bush league foul #3: They don't know their customer or product well enough to drive account strategy.
"A VP of a huge software company and I were talking the other day, and he said, 'I have a new philosophy: People don't buy from people they've never met.'

"What happens nowadays is there's this e-mail exchange with the customer to set up a meeting, and the customer says, 'Sure, come on out on Tuesday.'

"So the salesperson flies off to do a presentation, but they're flying blind—they're just presenting. Thanks to e-mail, people think they're selling, but all they're doing is scheduling a meeting and presenting."

Bush league foul #4: They assume information they don't know, thereby taking the wrong action.
"People assume they're meeting with decision makers, but can your salesperson tell you the person's title that they're going to meet with? And how much authority they really have?"

Bush league foul #5: They fidget with many accounts and don't focus on the winnable ones.
"This goes way beyond the forecast," Martin says. "Many people confuse action and busy-ness with results. They say they're working on 20 deals and you're always hearing about new deals, but they're never driving the one.

"They're always very optimistic—and you do need that internally as a salesperson—but in the back of my mind I have this premise that the customer is always lying, and I want to be the one vendor who's being told the truth."

Bush league foul #6: They don't put themselves in the position of being their own customer.
"Do you really listen to yourself talk? A heavy hitter is not just pitching; a heavy hitter is always trying to put himself or herself in the other person's shoes," Martin says.

Bush league foul #7: They don't take the time to continually analyze their performance.
"Right after the sales call, you have to debrief with your sales team—with your SE and manager. 'What did I do well? What did I do poorly?' It has to be done while the call is still fresh.

"There's just no win-loss analysis anymore, and it's really important to do. The startup CEO is going to do the blame game or the cumulative dog pile, because they don't have the sales experience—it's happening everywhere in the software industry."

Wondering about the "blame game" and the "cumulative dog pile"?

"In the blame game, for example, the sales VP talks about how bad marketing is, or says that the product is flawed," says Martin. "It's often played to further a personal agenda.

"In the cumulative dog pile, the salesperson is put under a microscope, the VP and the engineering manager and the CEO get on the call and they tear the rep apart. There's really nothing gained from it, because nothing was done to change the process."

Bush league foul #8: They don't understand how to marshal their resources or use their manager.
"Most CEOs have some mistaken belief that heavy hitters are lone rangers—knights in shining armor who are going to ride in to the company and single-handedly close million-dollar deals.

"That's not the way it is. Heavy hitters know how to marshal the resources in the company, pull in the VP of R&D at the critical moment, pull in the CEO at the end of the deal to get it done—those types of things."

Bush league foul #9: They set unrealistic customer expectations or make commitments that their product or company can't fill.
Some of this comes from an industry illness, Martin says. "Think about all the financial restatements that are happening now among software companies; a lot of it is the culture of the company.

"CA is going to restate $2 billion in revenue; that's set at the top, and the salespeople were just following the culture. And, that's a very dangerous culture to live in, because you never have happy customers.

"If you've got a renegade out there, you've got to deal with that immediately. Look at Sagent—one salesperson brought that company down. He sold fictitious deals to the federal government worth millions of dollars. Over-committing can be very dangerous."

Bush league foul #10: They expect to win the deal without a coach or think they have a coach when they don't.
"You've got to have a coach in every significant software deal, or you don't win the deal," Martin says.

Now, to clarify: By "coach," he means an internal champion or advocate—someone on the customer's side who's going to help you.

Part of the key, of course, is reading the coach. "Is that coach giving you accurate, honest, truthful, and proprietary information that they're not giving other vendors?

"Second, have they told you they want you to win? When you're not at the account, are they supporting your cause in the hallways and e-mails?"